(Business Lounge Journal – Foreign Insight)
In the face of ongoing global challenges, the role of diplomacy becomes ever more crucial in fostering mutual understanding and collaboration. Ukraine, steadfast in its defense of sovereignty in the ongoing Russian Invasion, continues to seek meaningful partnerships worldwide, including with Indonesia.
In this online interview, we had the privilege of speaking with the Ambassador of Ukraine to Indonesia, H.E. Dr. Vasyl Ivanovych Hamianin. During our conversation, the Ambassador shared his insights into Ukraine’s priorities for the coming year, reflecting on the resilience of his country amidst current conflicts. He also expressed hopes for the future of Ukraine-Indonesia relations, touching on opportunities for cultural, educational, and economic cooperation, as well as the broader implications of global unity in addressing shared challenges.
This dialogue sheds light on Ukraine’s unwavering determination and its vision for building stronger international ties.
BLJ: Business Lounge Journal
VIH: H.E. Dr. Vasyl Ivanovych Hamianin
BLJ: Mr. Ambassador, what is your plan for 2025?
VIH: Well, it’s a good question. I think my year will start and will be exactly in tune with my government, with my people, with my country. So, I think my plans will not be different from the plans of all my colleagues in the diplomatic corps of Ukraine, like Ukrainian diplomats, and Ukrainian diplomacy in general and definitely they will be no different from my government, from my people, meaning we keep on fighting, we keep on walking towards the victory in resisting the aggressor, resisting Russian invasion.
We’ll be trying desperately and strongly to save our country, to protect it, to protect our kids, to protect our future and definitely, we’ll be trying to rebuild and restart the economy, because when you’re under attack from ‘the big enemy’, I think that two main things that matter, three things, your people, your economy and your army, that’s something that will lead you to the final victory and that’s what I’m going to do. Everybody is going to do something to contribute somehow to their places. Sometimes it is like in the case of Indonesia, I’ll be trying to do my best, how to say, to make them, to concretize the aspirations and the plans, to make them tangible.
I mean I really look forward to the extension of our cooperation between Ukraine and Indonesia in practical spheres, as well as in other directions.
BLJ: What do you hope to see in the future regarding the relationship between our two nations, what do you hope to see in 2025?
VIH: Well, it’s great news for Indonesia.
You have a new government, right? You have a totally new government, new cabinet, new president, new parliament. You have new dreams, new targets, new goals, and new tasks to follow. Ukraine has, well, still has the same task.
So, I think our cooperation between Ukraine and Indonesia, will be developing in a few important directions. First, let’s call it humanitarian, the cultural, right? This will definitely require and demand us to bring in the projects and programs in the sphere of cinema, theater, maybe dancing, definitely fashion shows, which we have started to prepare already. That cooperation in terms of culture plus business, right? Batik and Ukrainian national attire combinations and some creative things. It will include education, which will target bringing in more Ukrainian students to Indonesia.
But more important for me is to make the Indonesian students enjoy the high level and quality of Ukrainian education. That will be very important. And the second part of our cooperation, I think, will be, as I mentioned, tangible and concrete.
This will refer to food security. This will be like cooperation in the sphere of agriculture. And it will not necessarily be like trading only, like, you know, export and import.
However, we know how to satisfy Indonesia’s demand for food supplies. But it also will be related to the reformation of the Indonesian agricultural sphere. We have vast experience in this.
We have a lot to share with Indonesia. So, I’m sure that this will, eventually, this will lead to the increased production of food by Indonesian petani, by Indonesian farmers. And, well, this will be an important contribution to the implementation of projects that are declared by your president.
And the third sphere will be, I will call it like, well, let’s call it political. We really need to strengthen the vertical and horizontal ties between our presidents, between our governments, between our militaries, between our intelligence, and between our religious communities. As you might have seen, last week, we had a delegation from Ukraine led by the spiritual leaders of the Ukrainian Muslim people, Crimean Tatars.
And Mufti, or Grand Imam Basar of Ukraine, Ukrainian Crimean Tatars, and the leader of, like, a speaker of Crimean Tatars Majlis, like parliament. And I think that there is an understanding that our Muslim communities and Christian communities should communicate more closely to, you know, I would not call it like ignorance, but the problem is that we don’t know enough about each other. And this is the big gap that has been existing for decades.
I discovered this immediately after arriving in Jakarta three years ago. And I think that I did a lot to change this. At least, well, now if you hear about Ukraine, at least you know something, right? So, I mean, like all the ordinary people, they’ve heard about something.
And, you know, even some people named the kids after the Ukrainian heroes. That’s amazing. So, we have to deepen this knowledge.
Once we know more about each other, I think that Indonesian people will look differently into Ukraine and definitely will look differently into Russia, which is my great dream. So, if people see the real face of Ukraine and the real face of Russia, the people will treat the war that takes place now very differently from now.
BLJ: How do you see the future from your perspective (and) from your government perspective?
VIH: I repeated this many times and I will say it again.
I have a certain historical background. So, from the books, from the history, we can know the, like, stories about how empires appeared on the map, how they developed, and how they disappeared finally. How they were, how they declined and then disappeared and then disintegrated.
Actually, s ome long time ago, I was a citizen of such an empire, which was the Soviet Union, which collapsed in 1991, giving start to 15 independent states, including Ukraine and 14 others. So, my vision of today’s war and the attitude of the world is, I will call it one word, inevitability. The historical inevitability is, tells us that empires cannot last too long.
The empire that calls itself Russia actually existed for about 300 years, a little bit, and it’s now declining because it’s compromised the very meaning of the, like, humanity, justice, and as practice shows us, in today’s world, it’s not like 300 or 1,000 years ago, but in today’s world, the processes tend to ensure that the justice and humanity prevail. So, the expectation is very simple. I mean, sooner or later, the world will realize, and understand that Russia imposes a great danger, not just to Ukraine and even not just to Europe, but to the whole world.
Just follow what happened in the last few years, the war in Ukraine, the absolute explosion of violence and war in the Middle East, and with many countries involved. Now, it’s not just, like, you know, shooting in between a few territories. It’s like a war that has been developing into something unpredictable, perhaps.
Then you see the situation of North Korean soldiers fighting in Europe. I mean, listen again, the North Korean army is fighting in the heart of Europe. So, these incredible things lead the world leaders only to two options, whether to ignore it and let the dictatorships win, which will endanger their own existence, which will endanger their own existence, because if, you see what, now Ukraine has no nuclear weapons, but Ukraine had nuclear weapons 30 years ago, and then it deliberately gave it out to, you know, to become a non-nuclear state.
Now, if Ukraine, let’s imagine, if Ukraine fails to protect itself, not having nuclear weapons, I’m telling you this, in 10 years, half of the world will have nuclear weapons. They will develop, they will buy, and this will be an unstoppable process of the nuclearization of the world. Then, if Ukraine fails to protect itself, tomorrow the territorial aggressions and invasions will happen everywhere in the world, in Latin America, in Africa, in Asia, everywhere.
You will see it because the present conflicts are everywhere. The appetites of many neighbors of many countries are very big, so that will be a catastrophe for all humankind, not just for Ukraine. So, the only other option is to stop the aggressor and show the world that democracy has teeth and is strong enough to protect itself.
That’s my expectation. So, people will look soberly, look like, you know, clearly at the situation. It’s not because I’m Ukrainian, it’s because this is like reality, this is objectivity.
We want to stop evil globally; we have to stop it somewhere first. We have to stop it somewhere first. And this is what the peace formula of my president is about.
So, I do expect some very serious and very strong decisions from the world leaders. I do expect this, not from all, of course, but at least from the democratic leaders, like the leaders of the democratic countries, right? I’m not talking about Iran or North Korea, of course, I’m talking about democratic countries. So, I do expect view changes and, well, these statistics now show that there are some trends already, there are some changes already.
People don’t view Russian aggression in Ukraine as they did three years ago. So, that’s it. So, the expectations are, well, before this happens, sadly, many people will die in Ukraine.
Many people will die everywhere in the world, in many places. But this will finally be crowned, this fight, this resistance, this resilience will be crowned with the victory of democracy, humanity, justice, and common sense over the dictatorships. That’s it.
I’m convinced in that, as a historian, as a patriot, as a human being. Thank you.
As Ukraine continues to strengthen its relationship with Indonesia through cultural, educational, and economic initiatives, it is clear that both nations have much to gain from deepening their ties. This dialogue serves as a reminder of the critical role diplomacy plays in building bridges and securing a more peaceful and collaborative future for all.
We thank the Ambassador for his time and candid reflections, and we look forward to seeing the fruits of closer Ukraine-Indonesia collaboration in the years to come.